Visual Concepts: Difference between revisions

From the Audiovisual Identity Database, the motion graphics museum

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===Background===
===Background===
'''Visual Concepts''' was a California-based game developer formed in May 1988. It was acquired by [[Sega]] in May 1999 and turned to solely developing sports titles to support the [[Sega Dreamcast]]. In 2003, the [[Sega Sports]] brand was shut down, and then in January 2005, Visual Concepts and its sports licenses were sold to [[Take-Two Interactive]], which led to the creation of [[2K Games]]. The studio was assimilated into the [[2K Sports]] brand and its logo has not been seen on-screen since, although it appears on box covers.
'''Visual Concepts''' was a California-based game developer formed in May 1988. It was acquired by [[Sega]] in May 1999 and turned to solely developing sports titles to support the [[Sega Dreamcast]]. In 2003, the [[Sega Sports]] brand was shut down, and then in January 2005, Visual Concepts and its sports licenses were sold to [[Take-Two Interactive]], which led to the creation of [[2K Games|2K]]. The studio was assimilated into the [[2K Sports]] brand and its logo has not been seen on-screen since, although it appears on box covers, until the brand name is dropped in 2014.


{{ImageTOC
{{ImageTOC
|Visual Concepts (1990) (Taken from Designasaurus II, DOS).png|1st Logo (1990)
|Visual Concepts (1990) (Taken from Designasaurus II, DOS).png|1st Logo (1990)
|Visual Concepts (1992) (Taken from Desert Strike - Return to the Gulf, SNES).png|2nd Logo (March 1992-February 1993)
|Visual Concepts (1992) (Taken from Desert Strike - Return to the Gulf, SNES).png|2nd Logo (March 1992-February 1993)
|VC 93.png|3rd Logo (''Claymates'' demo variant) (1993)
|VC 93.png|3rd Logo (Claymates demo custom variant) (1993)
|VC 94.png|4th Logo (1993-1994)
|VC 94.png|4th Logo (1993-1994)
|VC_95.png|5th Logo (November 1994-1995)
|VC_95.png|5th Logo (November 1994-1995)
|Visual Concepts (1995) (Taken from WeaponLord, SNES).png|6th Logo (October 13, 1995-1996)
|Visual Concepts (1995) (Taken from WeaponLord, SNES).png|6th Logo (October 13, 1995-1996)
|VC 97.png|7th Logo (1995-1997)
|VC 97.png|7th Logo (1995-1997)
|VC Viewpoint.png|8th Logo (''Viewpoint'' variant) (1996)
|VC Viewpoint.png|8th Logo (Viewpoint custom variant) (November 28, 1995-June 1, 1996)
|VC 98.jpg|9th Logo (November 30, 1997-2001)
|VC 98.jpg|9th Logo (November 30, 1997-April 18, 2002)
|Visualconcepts.png|10th Logo (''Floigan Bros.'' variant) (July 30, 2001)
|Visualconcepts.png|10th Logo (Floigan Bros. custom variant) (July 30-November 23, 2001)
|Visual Concepts (2001) (Taken from Ooga Booga, Dreamcast).png|11th Logo (''Ooga Booga'' variant) (September 12, 2001)
|Visual Concepts (2001) (Taken from Ooga Booga, Dreamcast).png|11th Logo (Ooga Booga custom variant) (September 12, 2001)
|VC 2005.jpg|12th Logo (October 23, 2001-2006)
|VC 2005.jpg|12th Logo (October 23, 2001-October 27, 2006)
|Vlcsnap-2023-01-05-17h47m25s699.png|13th Logo (September 12, 2006-2007)
|Vlcsnap-2023-01-05-17h47m25s699.png|13th Logo (September 12, 2006-August 7, 2008)
}}
}}


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'''Visuals:''' On a black background, there is an upside-down pyramid with a circle taken out of it to make the shape of a "C". Below it was the text "DESIGNED AND DEVELOPED BY" and underneath is the text "'''Visual Concepts, Ltd.'''" in a bold font.
'''Visuals:''' On a black background, there is an upside-down pyramid with a circle taken out of it to make the shape of a "C". Below it was the text "DESIGNED AND DEVELOPED BY" and underneath is the text "'''Visual Concepts, Ltd.'''" in a bold font.


'''Technique:''' None.
'''Technique:''' A still sprite-based graphic.


'''Audio:''' None.
'''Audio:''' None.
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'''Availability:''' Seen on ''Desert Strike: Return to the Gulf'' and ''Harley's Humongous Adventure'' for the Super NES.
'''Availability:''' Seen on ''Desert Strike: Return to the Gulf'' and ''Harley's Humongous Adventure'' for the Super NES.


===3rd Logo (''Claymates'' demo variant) (1993)===
===3rd Logo (''Claymates'' demo custom variant) (1993)===
[[File:VC 93.png|frameless|center]]
[[File:VC 93.png|frameless|center]]


'''Visuals:''' There is the logo similar from before, except the upside-down pyramid with the "C" shape is in 2D with its shadow behind it, and the diamond square is {{color|darkviolet|purple}} and has a texture on it. Below is "'''Visual Concepts'''" in a serif font.
'''Visuals:''' There is the logo similar from before, except the upside-down pyramid with the "C" shape is in 2D with its shadow behind it, and the diamond square is {{color|darkviolet|purple}} and has a texture on it. Below is "'''Visual Concepts'''" in a serif font.


'''Technique:''' None.
'''Technique:''' A still digital card.


'''Audio:''' None.
'''Audio:''' None.
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'''Visuals:''' There is an enhanced {{color|gray}}-colored triangle, which looks more 3D than before and has a grated left surface. The name in the corporate font appears directly over the triangle in {{color|blue}}. "PRESENT" is below.
'''Visuals:''' There is an enhanced {{color|gray}}-colored triangle, which looks more 3D than before and has a grated left surface. The name in the corporate font appears directly over the triangle in {{color|blue}}. "PRESENT" is below.


'''Technique:''' None.
'''Technique:''' A still sprite-based graphic.


'''Audio:''' None or the opening theme of the game.
'''Audio:''' None or the opening theme of the game.
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'''Variant:''' On ''Toughman Contest'', the word "PRESENT" is seen under the logo.
'''Variant:''' On ''Toughman Contest'', the word "PRESENT" is seen under the logo.


'''Technique:''' None.
'''Technique:''' A still digital graphic.


'''Audio:''' None. On ''Toughman Contest'', it's the opening theme of the game.
'''Audio:''' None. On ''Toughman Contest'', it's the opening theme of the game.
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[[File:VC 97.png|frameless|center]]
[[File:VC 97.png|frameless|center]]


'''Visuals:''' We start over a very dark water-like surface under the skies. Three explosions occur at the distance, emerging {{color|orange}} sparkles. As the fourth explosion takes place, the camera moves to top view and see a glowing watery mass rising and turning into the yellow stone triangle logo. Then, "'''''VISUAL CONCEPTS'''''" flashes in below in the orange light to black and lights up to white, one by one.
'''Visuals:''' The sequence starts over a very dark water-like surface under the skies. Three explosions occur at the distance, emerging {{color|orange}} sparkles. As the fourth explosion takes place, the camera moves to top view and see a glowing watery mass rising and turning into the yellow stone triangle logo. Then, "'''''VISUAL CONCEPTS'''''" flashes in below in the orange light to black and lights up to white, one by one.


'''Variant:''' On the unfinished PlayStation prototype for ''Madden NFL '96'', the text appears over the opening cinematic as the triangle logo flashes in over the text.
'''Variant:''' On the unfinished PlayStation prototype for ''Madden NFL '96'', the text appears over the opening cinematic as the triangle logo flashes in over the text.
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'''Availability:''' Appeared on ''NHL '97'' for PlayStation and Sega Saturn and ''NBA Action '98'' for Sega Saturn and PC. It also appears on ''NBA Fastbreak '98'' for PlayStation as well.
'''Availability:''' Appeared on ''NHL '97'' for PlayStation and Sega Saturn and ''NBA Action '98'' for Sega Saturn and PC. It also appears on ''NBA Fastbreak '98'' for PlayStation as well.


===8th Logo (''Viewpoint'' variant) (1996)===
===8th Logo (''Viewpoint'' custom variant) (November 28, 1995-June 1, 1996)===
[[File:VC Viewpoint.png|frameless|center]]
[[File:VC Viewpoint.png|frameless|center]]


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'''Availability:''' Appeared exclusively on ''Viewpoint'' for Playstation.
'''Availability:''' Appeared exclusively on ''Viewpoint'' for Playstation.


===9th Logo (November 30, 1997-2001)===
===9th Logo (November 30, 1997-April 18, 2002)===
[[File:VC 98.jpg|frameless|center]]
[[File:VC 98.jpg|frameless|center]]


'''Visuals:''' There is the regular (post-1994) white triangle with a hole. The name in {{color|blue}} is attached over it, exactly like it was in the 4th logo.
'''Visuals:''' There is the regular (post-1994) white triangle with a hole. The name in {{color|blue}} is attached over it, exactly like it was in the 5th logo.


'''Variants:'''
'''Variants:'''
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*On ''World Series Baseball 2K2'', the logo appears wide on a white background.
*On ''World Series Baseball 2K2'', the logo appears wide on a white background.


'''Technique:''' None. Either the main logo or any variant is still.
'''Technique:''' A still digital graphic.


'''Audio:''' None or the opening theme.
'''Audio:''' None or the opening theme.


'''Availability:''' Was seen on ''NCAA College Football 2K2: Road to the Rose Bowl'' for Dreamcast and the two games mentioned above.
'''Availability:''' It was seen on ''NCAA College Football 2K2: Road to the Rose Bowl'' for Dreamcast and the two games mentioned above.


===10th Logo (''Floigan Bros.'' variant) (July 30, 2001)===
===10th Logo (''Floigan Bros.'' custom variant) (July 30-November 23, 2001)===
[[File:Visualconcepts.png|center|300px]]
[[File:Visualconcepts.png|center|300px]]
{{YouTube|id=1yEDwQPjg6c}}
{{YouTube|id=1yEDwQPjg6c}}
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'''Availability:''' Appeared on ''Floigan Bros.'' for the Dreamcast console.
'''Availability:''' Appeared on ''Floigan Bros.'' for the Dreamcast console.


===11th Logo (''Ooga Booga'' variant) (September 12, 2001)===
===11th Logo (''Ooga Booga'' custom variant) (September 12, 2001)===
[[File:Visual Concepts (2001) (Taken from Ooga Booga, Dreamcast).png|320x320px|center]]
[[File:Visual Concepts (2001) (Taken from Ooga Booga, Dreamcast).png|320x320px|center]]
'''Visuals:''' On a historic stone setting, the text "VISUAL CONCEPTS" appear in a cartoony font bounces in in a weird font, while the Triangle symbol falls in with a grass texture and a wall behind it, and a character hits the "C" flipping it to its normal position, and the triangle shakes.
'''Visuals:''' On a historic stone setting, the text "VISUAL CONCEPTS" appear in a cartoony font bounces in in a weird font, while the Triangle symbol falls in with a grass texture and a wall behind it, and a character hits the "C" flipping it to its normal position, and the triangle shakes.
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'''Availability:''' Appears on the Dreamcast game of ''Ooga Booga''.
'''Availability:''' Appears on the Dreamcast game of ''Ooga Booga''.


===12th Logo (October 23, 2001-2006)===
===12th Logo (October 23, 2001-October 27, 2006)===
[[File:VC 2005.jpg|frameless|center]]
[[File:VC 2005.jpg|frameless|center]]
{{YouTube|id=LoKoiXlq-M4}}
{{YouTube|id=uLgiOQSZBgw}}


'''Visuals:''' On a gradient {{color|blue}} background, multiple {{color|blue}} lines zoom rapidly to the center, then separate into two packs and the white triangle forms from between. The triangle rotates while "'''VISUAL CONCEPTS'''" appears orbiting it and moving into a straight view. Several ghostly copies of the name move in the background. The triangle stops, shines and the logo fades out.
'''Visuals:''' On a gradient {{color|blue}} background, multiple {{color|blue}} lines zoom rapidly to the center, then separate into two packs and the white triangle forms from between. The triangle rotates while "'''VISUAL CONCEPTS'''" appears orbiting it and moving into a straight view. Several ghostly copies of the name move in the background. The triangle stops, shines and the logo fades out.
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'''Availability:''' Appears on ''2K'' sports games through the era such as ''NBA 2K2'', ''NCAA 2K3'' and ''Sega Soccer Slam''.
'''Availability:''' Appears on ''2K'' sports games through the era such as ''NBA 2K2'', ''NCAA 2K3'' and ''Sega Soccer Slam''.


===13th Logo (September 12, 2006-2007)===
===13th Logo (September 12, 2006-August 7, 2008)===
<tabber>
⚫
[[File:Vlcsnap-2023-01-05-17h47m25s699.png|frameless|center|300px]]
Images=
{{#tag:tabber|
Standard Variants=
<gallery mode="packed" heights="200">
⚫
Vlcsnap-2023-01-05-17h47m25s699.png| ''Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer''
Visual Concepts (From NHL 2K7, Xbox 360) (2006).png| ''NHL 2K7'' and ''Major League Baseball 2K7''
</gallery>
{{!}}-{{!}}
Multi-Logo Variants=
<gallery mode="packed" heights="200">
2K Sports and Visual Concepts (From NBA 2K7, PS3) (2006).png|''NBA 2K7''
2K Sports and Visual Concepts (From All Pro Football 2K8, PS3) (2007).png|''All-Pro Football 2K8''
2K Sports and Visual Concepts (From NBA 2K8, PS3) (2007).png|''NBA 2K8'' and ''College Hoops 2K8''
</gallery>
}}
|-|
Videos=
{{youtube|id=OOmH_pMQCkg}}
</tabber>


'''Visuals:''' On a {{color|blue}} background, there is a diamond that zooms in and transforms into a pyramid from the last logo, with the text "{{color|blue|VISUAL CONCEPTS}}" flies in over the logo, and then the logo shines.
'''Visuals:''' On a {{color|blue}} background, there is a diamond that zooms in and transforms into a pyramid from the last logo, with the text "{{color|blue|VISUAL CONCEPTS}}" flies in over the logo, and then the logo shines.


'''Variants:'''
'''Variants:'''
* On ''NHL 2K7'' and ''Major League Baseball 2K7'' the VC Triangle color is {{color|red}}.
* On ''NHL 2K7'' and ''Major League Baseball 2K7'', the VC Triangle color is {{color|red}}.
* On ''NBA 2K8'' and ''All Pro Football 2K8'', the logo is still and the [[2K Sports]] logo is on the left.
* On ''NBA 2K7'', ''NBA 2K8'', ''College Hoops 2K8'' and ''All Pro Football 2K8'', the logo is still and the [[2K Sports]] logo is on the left.


'''Technique:''' CGI.
'''Technique:''' CGI.

Revision as of 00:50, 7 April 2024

Credits
Descriptions by
Logophile and EnormousRat

Captures by
Logophile and CuriousGeorge60


Background

Visual Concepts was a California-based game developer formed in May 1988. It was acquired by Sega in May 1999 and turned to solely developing sports titles to support the Sega Dreamcast. In 2003, the Sega Sports brand was shut down, and then in January 2005, Visual Concepts and its sports licenses were sold to Take-Two Interactive, which led to the creation of 2K. The studio was assimilated into the 2K Sports brand and its logo has not been seen on-screen since, although it appears on box covers, until the brand name is dropped in 2014.


Contents

1st Logo (1990) 2nd Logo (March 1992-February 1993) 3rd Logo (Claymates demo custom variant) (1993) 4th Logo (1993-1994) 5th Logo (November 1994-1995) 6th Logo (October 13, 1995-1996) 7th Logo (1995-1997)
1st Logo (1990) 2nd Logo (March 1992-February 1993) 3rd Logo (Claymates demo custom variant) (1993) 4th Logo (1993-1994) 5th Logo (November 1994-1995) 6th Logo (October 13, 1995-1996) 7th Logo (1995-1997)
 
8th Logo (Viewpoint custom variant) (November 28, 1995-June 1, 1996) 9th Logo (November 30, 1997-April 18, 2002) 10th Logo (Floigan Bros. custom variant) (July 30-November 23, 2001) 11th Logo (Ooga Booga custom variant) (September 12, 2001) 12th Logo (October 23, 2001-October 27, 2006) 13th Logo (September 12, 2006-August 7, 2008)
8th Logo (Viewpoint custom variant) (November 28, 1995-June 1, 1996) 9th Logo (November 30, 1997-April 18, 2002) 10th Logo (Floigan Bros. custom variant) (July 30-November 23, 2001) 11th Logo (Ooga Booga custom variant) (September 12, 2001) 12th Logo (October 23, 2001-October 27, 2006) 13th Logo (September 12, 2006-August 7, 2008)


1st Logo (1990)

Visuals: On a black background, there is an upside-down pyramid with a circle taken out of it to make the shape of a "C". Below it was the text "DESIGNED AND DEVELOPED BY" and underneath is the text "Visual Concepts, Ltd." in a bold font.

Technique: A still sprite-based graphic.

Audio: None.

Availability: Seen on the DOS game of Designasaurus II.

2nd Logo (March 1992-February 1993)

Visuals: On a black background is a borderline diamond with the same design from the previous logo, except it was redesigned. Below is "VISUAL CONCEPTS" in a similar font to the then-current Electronic Arts logo. Everything is in gray. After a few seconds, the logo rapidly zooms in towards the screen.

Variant: On Harley's Humongous Adventure, the diamond is in blue, and the text reads "A Visual Concepts" above and below it was the text "Production".

Technique: A zooming effect.

Audio: None.

Availability: Seen on Desert Strike: Return to the Gulf and Harley's Humongous Adventure for the Super NES.

3rd Logo (Claymates demo custom variant) (1993)

Visuals: There is the logo similar from before, except the upside-down pyramid with the "C" shape is in 2D with its shadow behind it, and the diamond square is purple and has a texture on it. Below is "Visual Concepts" in a serif font.

Technique: A still digital card.

Audio: None.

Availability: Only appears on the demo of Claymates.

4th Logo (1993-1994)


Visuals: There is the logo similar from before, except the diamond square now has a blue/dark blue gradient color. The upside-down pyramid object is gold and its in a 3D style. Below the logo is "VISUAL CONCEPTS" in a future-styled font.

Variants:

  • On ClayFighter and ClayFighter: Tournament Edition for Super NES, the logo tilts and sides in from the left and right respectively, forming the logo.
  • On SNES versions of Madden NFL '94, Bill Walsh College Football, and MLBPA Baseball and the unfinished Genesis game of Congo, "PRESENT" is shown below the logo. Plus on the SNES version of Bill Walsh College Football, the diamond square is a bit plain blue.
  • On Lester the Unlikely and the SNES game of We're Back!: A Dinosaur's Story, the logo is a bit smaller.
  • On Dominus, the words "In association with" are shown above the logo.

Technique: Sprite-based animation on the ClayFighter SNES variants. Otherwise, none.

Audio: Usually, none or the opening theme of the game.

Audio Variants:

  • On the ClayFighter SNES variants, an orchestral tune with a five-note ping sound is heard.
  • On the Genesis version of ClayFighter, the fanfare is in a lower pitch.

Availability: Appears on ClayFighter for SNES and Genesis, ClayFighter: Tournament Edition, Lester the Unlikely, We're Back!: A Dinosaur's Story, ClayMates for SNES and Dominus. It also appears on the SNES versions of Madden NFL '94, Bill Walsh College Football, and MLBPA Baseball and the unfinished SNES game of Mickey's Playtown Adventure: A Day of Discovery as well.

5th Logo (November 1994-1995)

Visuals: There is an enhanced gray-colored triangle, which looks more 3D than before and has a grated left surface. The name in the corporate font appears directly over the triangle in blue. "PRESENT" is below.

Technique: A still sprite-based graphic.

Audio: None or the opening theme of the game.

Availability: Appears on Madden NFL '95 and NHL '95 for SNES.

6th Logo (October 13, 1995-1996)

Visuals: On a white background, there is a grated "VC" triangle with a new hole design on the right side, which now goes through the whole triangle. The logo casts shadows. The company name is written in blue below the triangle.

Variant: On Toughman Contest, the word "PRESENT" is seen under the logo.

Technique: A still digital graphic.

Audio: None. On Toughman Contest, it's the opening theme of the game.

Availability: Appeared on WeaponLord and the unfinished Congo game for Genesis and SNES, and on Toughman Contest, which was their last title for Sega Genesis.

7th Logo (1995-1997)

Visuals: The sequence starts over a very dark water-like surface under the skies. Three explosions occur at the distance, emerging orange sparkles. As the fourth explosion takes place, the camera moves to top view and see a glowing watery mass rising and turning into the yellow stone triangle logo. Then, "VISUAL CONCEPTS" flashes in below in the orange light to black and lights up to white, one by one.

Variant: On the unfinished PlayStation prototype for Madden NFL '96, the text appears over the opening cinematic as the triangle logo flashes in over the text.

Technique: CGI.

Audio: A gloomy soundtrack with explosions and a short synth orchestration at the end.

Availability: Appeared on NHL '97 for PlayStation and Sega Saturn and NBA Action '98 for Sega Saturn and PC. It also appears on NBA Fastbreak '98 for PlayStation as well.

8th Logo (Viewpoint custom variant) (November 28, 1995-June 1, 1996)

Visuals: Continuing where the High Score Entertainment logo left off during the game's intro, the sphere disappears and a bright light spark burns the hole inside the pyramid, which rotates upside down. The name in a 3D font appears in the light splash.

Technique: CGI.

Audio: The game's opening theme.

Availability: Appeared exclusively on Viewpoint for Playstation.

9th Logo (November 30, 1997-April 18, 2002)

Visuals: There is the regular (post-1994) white triangle with a hole. The name in blue is attached over it, exactly like it was in the 5th logo.

Variants:

  • On One for PlayStation, the logo appears over the moving background during the intro clip.
  • On World Series Baseball 2K2, the logo appears wide on a white background.

Technique: A still digital graphic.

Audio: None or the opening theme.

Availability: It was seen on NCAA College Football 2K2: Road to the Rose Bowl for Dreamcast and the two games mentioned above.

10th Logo (Floigan Bros. custom variant) (July 30-November 23, 2001)


Visuals: On a navy-blue background, there are the letters of "ISUAL CONCEPTS" in a yellow-golden gradient, bouncing one by one. The "V" carries the Triangle symbol colored in yellow. Then it sets the symbol, jumps with a sommersault and goes back to its place, while the other letters look it. Now, the name reads "VISUAL CONCEPTS" and the pyramid leaves a big shadow.

Technique: Real-time CGI.

Audio: Some gibberish sounds that end with a tiny "TA DAAA!".

Availability: Appeared on Floigan Bros. for the Dreamcast console.

11th Logo (Ooga Booga custom variant) (September 12, 2001)

Visuals: On a historic stone setting, the text "VISUAL CONCEPTS" appear in a cartoony font bounces in in a weird font, while the Triangle symbol falls in with a grass texture and a wall behind it, and a character hits the "C" flipping it to its normal position, and the triangle shakes.

Technique: CGI.

Audio: A cartoony theme with a bouncing sound.

Availability: Appears on the Dreamcast game of Ooga Booga.

12th Logo (October 23, 2001-October 27, 2006)


Visuals: On a gradient blue background, multiple blue lines zoom rapidly to the center, then separate into two packs and the white triangle forms from between. The triangle rotates while "VISUAL CONCEPTS" appears orbiting it and moving into a straight view. Several ghostly copies of the name move in the background. The triangle stops, shines and the logo fades out.

Technique: CGI.

Audio: Various synth effects.

Availability: Appears on 2K sports games through the era such as NBA 2K2, NCAA 2K3 and Sega Soccer Slam.

13th Logo (September 12, 2006-August 7, 2008)

  • Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer

    Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer

  • NHL 2K7 and Major League Baseball 2K7

    NHL 2K7 and Major League Baseball 2K7

  • NBA 2K7

    NBA 2K7

  • All-Pro Football 2K8

    All-Pro Football 2K8

  • NBA 2K8 and College Hoops 2K8

    NBA 2K8 and College Hoops 2K8

Visuals: On a blue background, there is a diamond that zooms in and transforms into a pyramid from the last logo, with the text "VISUAL CONCEPTS" flies in over the logo, and then the logo shines.

Variants:

  • On NHL 2K7 and Major League Baseball 2K7, the VC Triangle color is red.
  • On NBA 2K7, NBA 2K8, College Hoops 2K8 and All Pro Football 2K8, the logo is still and the 2K Sports logo is on the left.

Technique: CGI.

Audio: A slamming sound, then a whoosh.

Availability: Appears on games through the era such as NHL 2K7, Major League Baseball 2K7 and Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer.

Retrieved from "https://www.avid.wiki/Visual_Concepts?oldid=841781"
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