AVID:Requests for Comment/Rules reform

Now that the discussions phase of the rules reform has closed, it's time to vote on the suggestions you the community suggested! HibiscusCrown20 (talk) 22:24, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

=Additions=

Suggestion 1 - Add rules related to the forum (Compooper)
Suggestion from user: "Maybe some more rules related to the forum could be added."

Support

 * 1)  AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:51, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  Yes. There definitely needs to be some rules about the forums. Jecken (talk) 03:21, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:18, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5)  Fair enough. Blad (talk) 13:55, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 2 - Clarify the purpose of the Legacy section in Tutorial Guidelines and discourage misuse (Trevor807)
Suggestion from user: "Make it very clear that the "Legacy" section shouldn't be used like the previous "Editor's Note" (i.e. no opinionating or rethemed Scare Factors or Cheesy Factors)."

Support

 * 1) Considering that my vision for the Legacy section was to prevent bias and repurposed scare/cheesy factors, this is honestly one of my favorite rule suggestions. ★ Nova (talk) 23:06, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  The reason why I opposed the rename from Editor's Note to Legacy is because I felt that a rename wouldn't change anything and we needed better rules instead. I'm not sure if it should be as strict as Trevor says, as this wiki has a unique personality that I don't want to get thrown out, but some rules similar to YMMV on TV Tropes would work. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  This is a great idea. It is literally called "Legacy". Being too opinionated, mentioning how scary, or mentioning how cheesy a logo is doesn’t fit a section referring to a logo's legacy, unless the logo is known for being scary and/or cheesy. Jecken (talk) 03:23, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:19, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 6)  Legacy should be its own thing. Although I'd like Editor's Notes to return. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * all the way ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 13:45, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1)  Blad (talk) 13:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 3 - Prohibit redundant redirects (Camenati)
Suggestion and reasoning from user: "Why not a rule directed towards redirects? Specifically, no redundant redirects. This includes slight variations of a company's name (i.e. Ragdoll Productions' redirected page is simply called Ragdoll) or those that has a country name next to it. Some admins have took note of this and removed many as this has clogged up the search engine. To add on that, it makes navigating between pages more confusing, especially now that some lead to dead pages that were deleted a few days ago. I think only former names of a company or their acronym are acceptable, but not those that are too similar to the original page's name."

Support

 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:24, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  I've definitely had problems like these in the past with other wikis. I'd like an organized look on the wiki, and not get it cluttered with 10 pages that are the same with slight variations on the title/description. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * 3)  Already a general policy on most wikis, why not this one? Blad (talk) 13:57, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 3.1 - Exempt grammatical variations from the redundant redirect rule (Hb1290)
Suggestion and reasoning from user: "I would say grammatical variations should be accepted too, like if a company has a hyphen in their name we should be able to have a hyphenless redirect to make it easier to search and link that page. "

Support

 * 1)  This is done on Wikipedia. Blad (talk) 13:58, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:26, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 4 - Restrict or hide captures of NSFW logos and forbid videos of logos containing jumpscares (Pingu)
Suggestions and reasoning from user: "Mature (NSFW) images and videos should be restricted or hidden behind spoiler tags. There should be no videos for entries that involve shocking content like jumpscares, for safety reasons. Further reading: |https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/ExampleSectionectomy"

Abstain

 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:28, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Except for MTV Asia's "Food For Thought" and the logos with particularly pornographic imagery (the latter of which aren't really linked to the wiki much anyways so much as just described with a picture of the final logo and no video), we don't have anything bad enough on this wiki to be balked at by the TV Tropes P3. The markers are sufficient. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  As Per AKP. MinistrycraftEntertainment (talk) 12:09, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3) . AKP raised some really good points. The markers do their job fine as-is. Dominicmgm (talk) 20:49, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  I agree with AKP's statement, but I'd like to add something. I guess just add a jumpscare warning and timestamp on videos with jumpscares, though I've never seen any logos that legitimately have jumpscares in them, other than that weird VID of Doom screamer. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:27, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * Kid named Horror Factory Entertainment: CalvinWilkerson (talk) 13:07, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Kid named Video Game Videos ★ Nova (talk) 17:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Opposing for stating jumpscares. I should note that the Content Policy already forbades/discourages non-collapsible NSFW images, but jumpscares are too few and far between, especially for logos. Blad (talk) 14:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Comments

 * 1) I support preserving NSFW logos, but I prefer to let logos with jumpscares stay. I have a good long reason about this, and it's time for me to finally tell my thoughts on NSFW logos in the AVID Wiki. I truly think for the sake of preservation, NSFW logos should be shown uncensored in both video and image form, and maybe behind  spoiler with warnings. Back then when AVID used to be CLG, I felt like the idea of not showing the video/image captures of the logo because it's violent or sexual or somethin' defeats the purpose of preserving logos. Yeah, you got the text describing the logos, but what about the logos shown visually or in motion? We don't really know what do they look like unless it is actually shown. Like I get Happy Rainbow Panda Bears Yadda Yadda Hoohah Something Something You Know Whatever is truly somethin' gory, but it shouldn't really be treated as the bane of the universe's existence. It should be treated as yet another logo. I also get that NSFW logos are sometimes against YouTube's guidelines, but there are many alternative sites for that, and I don't mean those smut sites based on a broken effed-up industry. There's Archive.org, or Vimeo, or PeerTube. There's even the possibility to host your own site that stores videos ready to be embedded. I believe we shouldn't stoop down to the logokids' level by restricting anyone from posting captures of NSFW logos. At least maybe have them behind spoilers so those kids know they are inappropriate. And for logos that have strong vulgar language, I don't think it should be marked or removed as a NSFW logo. Now, as for the logos with jumpscares, I strongly do not agree with getting rid of their logo captures. Of course they're scary, but forbidding captures of them is a terrible idea; these logos don't even need to be behind a spoiler. I'I don't even know  if a jumpscare warning text is needed because on one hand people would at least know the logo has a deliberate jumpscare, but on the other hand editors would mistake logos that aren't scary for logos that explicitly contain jumpscares. It would be honestly a confusing mess if a jumpscare rule were added. In short terms, let any NSFW logo captures be shown in their original forms uncensored and maybe behind a spoiler in the wiki, and logos with jumpscares should stay in the wiki. Both of the logos should be treated the same like other normal logos for preservation. The AVID wiki is not strictly a website for kids, and the AVID wiki shouldn't be like TVTropes forbidding NSFW content in favor of advertisement sponsors; All The Tropes had proven to be superior than TVTropes for good reasons. I hope many logokids don't come here saying that all NSFW logos should be banned. Kneesocks Kirisame (talk) 13:02, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 5 - Reinstate "No predictions" and "No low-quality pictures" rules (CooleyBoy10)
Suggestion and reasoning from user: "There are some rules that used to be on the old wiki that were oddly removed from this version's rules, which I still feel could be of use on here. The two I'm thinking of are no predictions (i.e., say, if NBC got a new logo, and somebody added "This will be first seen on [random show] on [random date]") and only add that IF/WHEN it actually happens, and no low-quality pictures (so nothing with Bandicam watermarks, YouTube artifacts, etc.)."

Support

 * 1)  , this is a great idea! The "No predictions" rule should definitely be enforced more, let's say, hypothetically, someone says the current Sega Films logo could appear on Sonic the Hedgehog 3, come 2024, and Sega introduces a new film logo instead. Yeah, predicting a logo's appearance on one of the company's future productions is not very wise. ★ Nova (talk) 22:50, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  Same as Nova. T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 22:58, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  These weren't even rules to begin with? No wonder people drive me nuts. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  even though I don't remember those rules ever being wound back in the first place sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5)  Nova gave good enough reasoning in my opinion. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 6)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:28, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 7) . AVID is not a crystal ball. Dominicmgm (talk) 20:49, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 8)  This is such a great idea, and it definitely ensures professionalism in the wiki, none of that "he said, she said" BS in here. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:30, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * 9)  See also WP:CRYSTAL CalvinWilkerson (talk) 13:11, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 10)  Blad (talk) 14:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 6 - Require sourcing for claims and add a Citations tag similar to Wikipedia's (CooleyBoy10)
Suggestion and reasoning from user: "It's possible this rule might be too restrictive or whatever, but I feel like we need a rule about sourcing your claims. What I mean is, if you say "This logo's jingle was composed by this person" or "This company helped produce this logo" or etc., you should add a source backing up that claim. Also IDK if we have a "citation needed" tag like Wikipedia does but we REALLY need that."

Support

 * 1)  This will be very difficult, and require lots of scanning of the wiki's FX and Trivia sections. I know for a fact that in the case of Prologue Films, which removed plenty of logos from its site when it was redesigned, there may be no source. But it will at least help get rid of misinformation. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  I agree with AlmightyKingPrawn. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  I also agree with AKP. It's a good idea in concept, but in practice, it might be difficult. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * 1)  I also agree with AKP. It's a good idea in concept, but in practice, it might be difficult. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC).

Abstain

 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) No opinion on this. Blad (talk) 14:02, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  This is a nice sentiment but will be difficult to enforce in practice. How many of the standard publications (newspapers, etc.) even cover nitty-gritty details about graphic design? Thatvhstapeguy (talk) 01:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  Even citations themselves can be untrue! Unless we know for sure that something has been done by someone, whether by obituary, article, demo reel, etc., I wouldn't put a word about it or who it was presumably done by (did Pixar really re-animate Paramount's stars?). If someone asks for proof for whatever reason, we know where to find it- adding citations to everything would be an extremely lengthy task and there's no guarantee anything stays online forever. DaffyDuck (talk) 00:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Comments
=Removals=

Suggestion 1 - Remove "No Espionage" (Compooper)
Current rule: "No spying for those who had been blocked, either. Anyone found to be practicing espionage for anyone who has been blocked from AVID will meet the same fate, i.e. blocked."

Reasoning from user: "When has THAT ever happened? In any case, I feel it isn't relevant to this wiki in today's world."

Support

 * Yeah that rule was an overreaction. T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 22:59, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The reason a rule made for such an obscure Wetpaint era incident was on the Miraheze wiki will forever be unknown. ★ Nova (talk) 23:10, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree. What is so bad about this? You may be attacked by the person, but that is the only thing I can think of. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  How does this "espionage" work in the first place? I'm curious... Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:34, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * 3)  I agree, the rule was extremely silly. Blad (talk) 14:03, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 2 - Remove "Don't edit with text extensions" (CooleyBoy10)
Current rule: "Certain add-ons or toolbars can mess up text you post on a website, or change words into something else. For example, during the Wikifoundry era, admin Wyraachur got into hot water for having an add-on that automatically changed words to My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic-related terms (like "everybody" to "everypony" and "America" to "Amareica"). If you have one of these, either remove it, disable it or whitelist this website on it immediately, because they can cause bugs."

Reasoning from user: "When was the last time anybody ever used toolbars, or got tricked into downloading one? As for the add-ons that change text (including the infamous MLP one), I'd say those have mostly gone the way of the dodo bird as well."

Support
20thcenturyfox1981 (Talk) 11:16, 23 October 2022
 * 1)  Even if this does end up happening some day, we don't need this specific of a rule. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) . sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:52, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5)  in the world --
 * 1)  Have never seen this happening. Haven't even heard of it until now! Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * 2)  Everypony needs to talk relatively normally and act normally, with some level of professionalism. But this should be a given, considering the other rules, making this redundant and a byproduct of a (hopefully) bygone era where people role play in every situation. DaffyDuck (talk) 00:50, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  Blad (talk) 14:04, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 3 - Remove subrule of "Don't spam the forums" regarding plastering (Compooper)
Current rule: "Related to the above, please do not create any threads on logo plastering. If the plastering is notable enough (for example, not just another case of the SPT logo plastering a CPT one), please add it into the proper page."

Reasoning from user: "Is a rule THIS specific necessary?"

Support

 * 1) . sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits
 * 2)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:53, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)  This is such a weird removal idea. It feels right, but feels wrong at the same time. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  I agree with Jecken. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC).

Comments
=Modifications=

Suggestion 1 - Revise "Irrelevant Content" to add more examples (Compooper)
Current rule: Anything not related to the topic of closing logos will be removed upon sight. Examples of this type of content include:

- Dream logos: Fictitious logos of any form are not allowed in article space and will be deleted on sight. You are still free to show off reconstructions, or your own logo creations in userspace (meaning on your userpage or a subpage thereof)

- Inauthentic images/videos/remakes: We only accept real on-screen video captures of (animated and still) logos and in-credit logos independently if it has the proper logo theme, the (opening/closing) title theme from any television series, TV movie, theatrical feature, documentary, newscaster, or video game, or it's accompanied by an announcer spiel, or it's silent. As for video game captures with hacks used, the only modifications that are permitted on this wiki are widescreen patches and screen field of view/2D interface scaling tweaks (for revealing items that are hidden off-screen like positions where something starts or stops at especially 3D objects during the logo sequence. Two examples include the Universal Interactive logo moved from the screen and the gameplay interface that appears above the Nintendo logo at the startup.) using mod loaders, hex-edited executables, configuration edits, codes designed to change them through cheating devices like Action Replay, Gecko and Gameshark (for console games) and the command lines to change the resolution/aspect. Any other modifications such as textures, music, models etc. are to be posted either in userspace or in the Spoofs channel of the AVID Discord

- Off-topic discussion: This is a logo/identity wiki. We are not interested in any screenplays, novels, etc. Repeated behavior with a suspected intent to spam on the wiki may result in a ban .

- Relating to the above, no uploading any non-logo related pictures to the photo gallery. Only real on-screen photo captures of (animated and still) logos and in-credit logos will be accepted, and the offending pictures will automatically be rejected. The only exceptions to this rule are images used for templates and images for use on a user page. Such images should be flagged accordingly in their descriptions. For user profile images use Template:ImageForProfile

- Parody logos can be added ONLY if they are notable and such logos should only appear on AVID:Logos in Popular Culture.

Reasoning from user: "Irrelevant Content: I feel like it should be rewritten to provide more relevant examples, such as about the off topic discussions, maybe we can allow that under certain cases. I also think politics discussions should be added to the list."

Support

 * 1)  Yes stuff like Ice Level should not be included here Anticritic12 (talk) 22:59, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  Blad (talk) 14:05, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 2 - Update "No Fake Logos", remove mention of "Hacked Accounts" rule (Compooper)
Current rule: "Making fake reports on real logos or pages will not be tolerated. If you abuse this rule then the administrative team will take proper action accordingly. If you suspect that you have been hacked, please see rule #5."

Reasoning from user: "I wonder why it has randomly a mention of rule 5. It is not really necessary. This rule in general could use an update as it relates to the terms used "fake reports on real logos" does not exactly mean "fake logos"."

Support
, the rule 5 mention is a relic of that page's old format before I overhauled it to use headings instead of numbers Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:54, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 2.1 - Retitle rule to "The logo must be legitimate" (Nova)
Suggestion from user: "TBH I think it should be titled "The logo must be legitimate.""

Support

 * 1) Remember that an LDA/CBSEye76 (a former SiIvaGunner-like logo upload channel that is now the official AVID YouTube channel) rip was on the HBO Downtown Productions page at one point. Not a wise move. ★ Nova (talk) 23:15, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) on principle, however, would suggest some grammatical tweaks. sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3) T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:54, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Not just a retitle, but I this on the basis that the rule would also be reworked to include fake logos while also talking about fake reports of real ones ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 13:39, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Look through a user's uploads and cross reference with other uploads to make sure it's legitimate. Usually it should be pretty clear that it is a fake- if it doesn't exist anywhere else outside of that YouTube video, then it's not real. DaffyDuck (talk) 00:39, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 3 - Update and further enforce "No blank pages" (Compooper)
Current rule: "If you create a page concerning a closing logo, do not leave it blank. The person who created the page will be given two weeks to place content on the respective page. If no content is added within that time frame, then the page will be marked as a stub. Stubs may be flagged for deletion at any time if content has not been added."

Reasoning from user: I feel like we're not enforcing this one enough. This could really use some changes."

Support

 * 1)  AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) . sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:55, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  More recently, many people have been making blank pages more often. I think this could do a decent job towards people who might create blank pages. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 6)  This can easily be enforced with an AbuseFilter. Blad (talk) 14:06, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 3.1 - Add subrule saying that describing at least one logo in a new page is required (DisneyInternationalFan)
Suggestion from user: "How about something like this? "You may not write descriptions where every section is marked "TBA" either. You should make an effort to describe at least one logo.""

Support
ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 13:38, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 16:37, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * DaffyDuck (talk) 00:53, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 3.2 - Add mentions of the new Draft System (Logohub)
Suggestion from user: "Some additions about the draft system should be included."

Support

 * 1) . Would suggest adding the following in particular: "Pages found to be lacking in substance may be moved to draft space"
 * 2)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  Just like modification 3, this could possibly do a good job towards users who would create blank pages. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * YES YES YES ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 13:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 4 - Remove mentions of older WikiFoundry-era users (Compooper)
Suggestion from user: "BOTH - Don't edit with text extensions & No personal commentary: Remove the mention of a WF-era user"

(TO CLARIFY: This is to remove mentions of WikiFoundry users in the rules that sound like we are calling them out for doing something wrong)

Support

 * 1) . sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  Some WikiFoundry users may be inactive as of now. I do like this idea, but something feels wrong about it. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * TO CLARIFY: This is to remove mentions of WikiFoundry users in the rules that sound like we are calling them out for doing something wrong ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 12:14, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 4.1 - Remove ALL references to past drama (Logohub)
Suggestion from user: "actually, no need to reference past drama overall, like the SSF thing on Klasky-Csupo."

Support

 * 1)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2) Move on. DaffyDuck (talk) 00:54, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Move on. DaffyDuck (talk) 00:54, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Abstain

 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the main rule would already do the job ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 13:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 5 - Rewrite "No Drama" to change from talking about literal drama to the more common type (Compooper)
Current rule: While visiting this website, please keep in mind that this is the Closing Logo Group. This is supposed to be a drama-free group that focuses solely on closing logos and the production companies behind them and so on. This isn't the place for drama queens and kings, petulance, popularity contests, dramatic award winning performances and so on.

Reasoning from user: "This rule needs a complete rewrite, it clearly talks about a different kind of drama instead of the one most would typically expect."

Support

 * 1)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  Yeah. That kind of drama has absolutely nothing to do with the AVID. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  High school drama and social media drama are not the same. One refers to some students' extreme egotism, and the other involves one or two guys getting harassed by some other guys using some pixels on a screen. ★ Nova (talk) 11:51, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I have never seen ANY wiki act like high school before. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 16:38, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 6 - Change "Personal Attacks" to include discrimination and merge with "Treat All Members Equally" (Compooper and Buzzfan120)
Current rule: Do not attack, harass, insult, persecute, or otherwise provoke users. That means, among other things, no fighting. Anyone caught engaging in any of these activities, regardless of their roles, will recieve a warning, then a block should the behaviour continue. as we have a 0-tolerance policy against abusive behavior, even if on websites not affiliated with the AVID (e.g. Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, DeviantArt, Discord). AVID is meant to be a friendly and fun place to be.

- Any form of hateful conduct, including directly threatening or attacking others on the basis of race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, gender, religion, age, condition (mental or medical) or disability, is strictly prohibited.

- Relating to the above, death hoaxes are forbidden. Any user caught deliberately making a death hoax about another user with malicious intent will be blocked.

Reasoning from users:
 * "Personal Attacks should be renamed/repurposed to: Please respect all users: Similar to how the current AVID discord rules writes it, it should mention "No bigotry, racism, lgbtq+-phobia" and also mention no saying any related slurs. Maybe merge it with "treat all members equally"." - Compooper
 * "And no ableism, either. I am so sick and tired of people using "autism" as an insult. As an autistic person myself, I find that highly offensive." - Buzzfan120

Support

 * Definitely agree with the reasoning. Plus a good way to thumb our noses at a certain BOD member whose name starts with M. T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 23:01, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1)  Let's not let anything like THAT day happen ever again. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  especially in light of the events that triggered all of this in the first place. sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  It makes total sense for these two rules to be merged together. It feels weird having them as two separate rules. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 7 - Organize the rules in categories (Compooper)
Suggestion from user: "Finally, the rule page should be organized in sections with similar rules, for example group all account rules into one section, all article rules into one section, and so on."

Support

 * 1) sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  It's a really good way of neatly organizing the rules. It also makes it easier to search for a rule, rather than skimming through the entire page to find said rule. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:48, 24 October 2022 (UTC).

Suggestion 8 - Revise "One Account Only" to allow multiple accounts under some circumstances (Blad)
Current rule: "The number of accounts that you are limited to registering is one. This is also a simple step to reduce instances of sockpuppetry. Sockpuppetry is when someone tries to hide from a certain ban under a new username. Sockpuppet accounts are not tolerated and will be blocked immediately upon discovery.

- If you've made a username sometime ago, but forgot the password of it and then registered a new account with a similar username, ask an administrator or moderator to block the old account while retaining the new one, or submit a password reset request to Miraheze for the old account and then have the new one cancelled. Failure to do either action will result in both accounts being suspended.

- If you want to change your username for any reason, you can request a Global Rename from Miraheze by posting on their Stewards' Noticeboard or their Discord server.

- If you have signed up with an offensive username, then you will be required to request a global rename. Do not misuse this rule to troll on the site and break our other rules or you will be blocked and you will no longer be welcome on the site.

- If you have been temporarily blocked and you create a new account to bypass your block, your ban will become permanent.

- This rule does not apply to users operating approved bots"

Suggestion and reasoning from user: Instead of this, I would suggest modifying the policy so that A. Users are required to disclose alternative accounts, as there are several reasons to allow them (see this page for examples), and B. block users who actively abuse them. Using an alt account isn't always abusive. On the flipside, you could also make it so only autoconfirmed/autopatrolled users can use alternative accounts."

Support

 * 1)  a more Wikipedia-influenced policy in this area. sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  Same as Hb1290. T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:51, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3)  It's quite strange that having a second account of any kind isn’t allowed. This feels good to me, however it also feels a bit wrong in my opinion. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5)  CalvinWilkerson (talk) 13:17, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Absolutely! I wonder why we didn't do this sooner ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 13:35, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 9 - Rename "No Stealing Content" to "Don't copy this wiki as your own" (Compooper)
Current rule: "The contents of the AVID may be referenced in news articles and other media of the like. However, it is forbidden to deliberately copy any section of this site and label it as your own. Examples include creating another wiki site, copying pages from this site, claiming the pages as your own, and stealing any captures. Doing any of the above actions will automatically result in a ban, and the duplicate site being deleted by Miraheze staff."

Suggestion and reasoning from user: "Current rule only talks about duplicating the site, maybe rename it to "Don't copy this wiki as your own""

Support

 * 1)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1)  Logokids are never going to stop trying to copy this wiki. In turn, I think that this rule should remain strict as to encourage people to contribute to this site rather than attempting to make their own as to imply that there are repercussions for such an action. There should be a vehement focus on building the site outward as it incorporates more aspects of idents, IDs and bumpers- while other wikis for these purposes have previously existed, the goal is to be an end-all be-all resource for everything regarding AV identifications. DaffyDuck (talk) 00:00, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * okay but this rule is about renaming it as the current name isn't related to what the rule is actually talking about. that is LITERALLY all there is, i didnt say remove it or rewrite it, i said RENAME it ifyoudarethenpizzait aka Compooper (talk) 00:57, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Not going to lie, I'd actually suggest removing this policy entirely. This is almost impossible to enforce on a practical level. First and foremost, this wiki is licensed by CC BY-SA. With proper attribution I don't see how cloning is a problem. Don't like clones? Change the license. Plus, clones on Miraheze wikis would automatically be forbidden by the current content policy. Hell, even if it was hosted on another site, I'd doubt that the copycat(s) would comply and remove said content. Blad (talk) 13:54, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 10 - Rewrite and Rename "No Full Shows" to "Don't Upload Copyrighted Programs" (Compooper)
Current rule: "Do not upload videos of logos that have footage of movies, TV programs or video games. That includes the beginning of movies or the end of TV series that feature content inappropriate for this website, and/or where you have to skip to a certain section to show the logo because of risk of termination of the user's account (especially for those users on YouTube!). These can also cause browsers to either slow down or crash, due to the length of the video. In addition, this is a potential copyright violation and against the Creative Commons License. If possible, download the video and edit it on any form of video editing software (e.g. Windows Movie Maker, VEGAS Pro, VideoPad) where it just has the logo."

Suggestion from user: "I would rewrite the rule as the following...

Don't Insert Copyrighted Programs We know that certain captures of logos can only be found on full recordings of movies or TV shows. However, we request that you do not insert such videos into this wiki, due to copyright concerns. If you have a YouTube account, you could try editing the video to the part where it has the logo, and upload that capture to the wiki, of course crediting the original uploader. Most of the rules could use a rewrite similar to this language."

Support

 * 1)  T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 01:57, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  This is a really good idea, however, I think it should retain the mention of inappropriate content, given the fact that a link to an adult movie was put on a page on this wiki once.
 * 3)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  There are entire accounts that exist solely for the purpose of stripping logos from content. That's basically how I started out before I got my own equipment. If you can't do it yourself, ask someone else to do it. YouTube is known to take things down at random so dead links will crop up as time goes on and it's much safer to have just the logo itself. DaffyDuck (talk) 23:49, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion 11 - Rewrite "Don't Feed The Trolls" to a more neutral tone (Compooper)
Current rule: Don't respond to any trolls that cause trouble on the site. The people who add fuel to the fire are just as bad as the people who started it. Ban them and be done with it, or if you're not an admin, let one know via their talk page, their messageboard, AVID:User Reports or the AVID discord and not on the thread itself.

Suggestion from user: "Make it a less aggressive tone. Like below:

Don't Feed The Trolls Trolls are a big problem on this wiki, and we understand they can agitate you when encountering them. But don't go as far as directly fighting with them, as more often than not it would only make the situation worse. If you encounter a troll on this website, either report them in the User Reports, or directly notify an admin/bureaucrat in the Discord, and they will act accordingly in the situation."

Support

 * 1)  Way too aggressive in current form. AlmightyKingPrawn (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 2)  Exactly. T807sig.png · Talk · Edits 00:37, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 3) This rule in current form comes across as very passive-aggressive in tone. sig.png Talk ·&#32;Edits 01:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 4)  I agree with AlmightyKingPrawn. It currently sounds too aggressive. Jecken (talk) 03:50, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 5)  --DisneyInternationalFan (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * 6)  "The people who add fuel to the fire are just as bad as the people who started it." This feels uncomfortably personal. Arfan Eka Diandra (talk) 10:42, 24 October 2022 (UTC).
 * 7)  The idea is to not let trolls have anything to feed on in the first place. Drama in these circles has always been extremely petty and childish as long as I've been around- the more you give a chance for a troll to grow and spread its word, the worse we all look. (Hence why I've strongly suggested getting rid of the Discord or heavily limiting its usage, perhaps to act more as a moderator communication tool rather than the school lunchroom it is.) I believe it should remain somewhat aggressive, but softened and more in a "don't do this because it won't end well and as we all know, once you're here, you're here forever so don't burn bridges" kind of way. DaffyDuck (talk) 23:46, 24 October 2022 (UTC)